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Earth Based UFO Stations




There is a fair body of literature promoting not just the existence of UFO’s, but also a fairly consistent story of a plausibly alien involvement in the development of Earth.  I have taken a minimalist position on all this by simply positing the emergence of a human society during the fifty thousand years preceding what is clearly the Pleistocene nonconformity some 13,000 years ago which ended the ice age by shifting the crust.

My position is that humanity had the time and the natural ability to produce a space faring civilization able to reside in space habitats.  This allowed adaptation to space and complete migration off planet before they brought about the Pleistocene nonconformity.  They then re established humanity in starter colonies on each continent and in time got out of the way while we got on with the job of terraforming the planet in ignorance.

My first conjecture is that all apparent reports of so called alien creatures reported so far could be human derived through genetic engineering.  The two skulls reported, one confirmed as real, fit nicely into this paradigm.  In practice I am able to interpret what I am seeing in the evidence rather consistently,

It is reasonable that once genetic engineering was undertaken, that a range of styles and specialized characteristics would have been entertained and applied.  Recall space habitats could maintain earth gravity in part and this would constrain too flamboyant redesign.

The sighting evidence for UFOs is presently massive and worldwide.  I have to presume that a huge population exists and that visiting Earth is largely routine although the craft lend themselves to stealth.  The craft observed are generally small in size as far as such craft could be.  See my article on reverse engineering the UFO in Viewzone or here.

I suspect that the principle reason for travel in our atmosphere is to transport individuals to long term bases on Earth.  This also makes a great deal of practical sense to retain bases here even if no access to the Earth’s surface can be allowed.  It allows for some gathering of biological materials and other similar needs that may be impossible to easily establish in a space habitat.

Such bases can be accessed from subsea access ports that would never be discovered by ourselves and can be as large as needed.  It is not difficult to produce domed rooms in sedimentary rock such as sandstone and not difficult to secure such rooms against water.  Miles of such structures can be built and populations of thousands can be easily accommodated in this manner.  Such structures could even have been built before the oceans rose to cover entrances.

We know that UFOs are able to submerge in water and thus could easily access such sites.

Potential locations have been noted and many more could easily exist.


Again, once you add in the presence of such stations, we have a clear rational for small UFOs transiting out atmosphere.

I do not wish to promote the idea of ‘aliens’ actually walking among us, but it should be obvious that it would be standard operating procedure used in order to track our actual progress and to collect data as may be needed.  They would avoid disclosure completely.

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Navy Advancing Free Electron Laser (FEL)








We are now getting some of the details on the current state of laser technology and this really shows us just how far advanced we are.  We can do it with a free electron device.  What this means is that we use a tunable plasma of free electrons to lase the related photon beam.

Even more impressive, once hot, it can fire continuously and that makes it a perfect weapon platform.

Besides, no one would be excited unless the leap from prototype to operational weapon was not doable.  We will have these soon.

It is also a perfect weapon to tie into the focus fusion device it that proves out.  It produces pure electron flow directly.  See my posts on focus fusion (google focus fusion on this blog)

I was a teenager when the laser was first discovered and it was well recognized that decades of development would be needed to make an effective ‘ray gun’.  Does anyone not think that we are about to report ‘mission accomplished’.

But don't worry, it will still be partly a death ray

By Clay Dillow Posted 11.10.2010


The Navy Wants a Multipurpose Laser to Eliminate Threats at Sea U.S. Navy

The Navy has been seeking its “Holy Grail” free electron laser (FEL) weapon for a while now, but it would rather you think of it more as a multipurpose laser platform than a death ray. While the Navy’s ship-borne FEL, currently under development at Boeing, will certainly be used to knock incoming threats out of the sky, naval officers really want a platform that can also be used for tracking, communications, target designation, disruption, time-of-flight location, and a variety of other tasks.

Such a multipurpose tool certainly makes the Navy’s laser system seem a more practical use of funding, and a free electron laser is the proper tool for the job(s). All lasers require some kind of medium to turn light into high-energy beams--solid state lasers use crystals, while chemical lasers use (you guessed it) a stew of unfriendly chemicals. Both of those versions have their pros and cons, but neither is extraordinarily versatile; they generally power their lasers up to a certain wavelength and that’s that.

Free electron lasers, on the other hand, use a stream of supercharged electrons to power the laser at varying wavelengths. This versatility is why the Navy has referred to FELs as the Holy Grail of laser tech and why it has embarked on a $163 million quest to develop a working weapons system, $26 million of which is currently facilitating a development program at Boeing that’s due for delivery in 2012.

The ability to shift wavelengths means that unlike other lasers--including the solid-state bad boyRaytheon used to knock a UAV out of the air from the deck of a ship earlier this year--an FEL system can adjust that wavelength for a variety of tasks. Further, it could run off a vessel’s power source rather than requiring its own, so it wouldn’t need to stop and reload.

That’s why, according to Danger Room's Spencer Ackerman (who is reporting from the Office of Naval Research’s science and tech conference this week), naval program managers are excited about their FEL. Those myriad uses for the platform would require much less energy than is required for actually knocking cruise missiles out of the sky, reducing the platform’s energy energy needs.

Of course, the Navy still wants its laser to target and destroy incoming threats, and therein lies the challenge. The lower power threshold for a weaponized laser of this nature is more or less 100 kilowatts; the FEL at the DOE lab where the Navy has been sponsoring research currently runs at about 14 kilowatts. Boeing’s job is to make up the difference so the Navy’s FEL can perform tasks that require 50 watts, 100-plus kilowatts, and everything in between.

Difficult, but certainly not impossible. There’s more background on the ONR’s efforts to this point in the video below.


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Stem Cell Transplants in Mice Produce Lifelong Enhancement of Muscle Mass




This work is suggestive and well worth addressing.  I observed a long time ago that we do not have a proper protocol for optimizing muscle development for the young.  Our hunter gatherer forebears did and were typically well muscled throughout their lives.

Our own civilization has only recently left the agrarian culture with its more narrow applications and needs when dealing with muscle development.  The whole problem has not even been recognized.

Essentially, a young person during their primary growth period that culminates in puberty needs to do intense work in the form of two hours of training, as much as twice per day, but certainly once per day for five days on and two off.  At the same time they need a high protein diet to support the growth.

This results in the build out of the worked muscles which sponge up the readily available stem cells and likely prevents an excess of fat cells.

In my own unique experience, this period had me driving a thin wheeled bicycle through thick soft gravel two miles to school and back, while I received modest arm work loads.  The result was a lower body whose calves and thighs looked like Tarzan for the last fifty years and an upper body always demanding maintenance and an immediate loss without.

Hay fever kept me from throwing bales of hay at this time.

My point is that it is not too hard to provide the necessary work loads to children who have reached the right age and to fit it into their lives.  The benefits are obvious.  Even if bulk is then lost, it is swiftly recovered most likely because the cells themselves are still there to reactivate.

Such a protocol, applied to all children would produce well muscled adults.

In the meantime, this work also suggests that we may be able to replicate this early growth spurt in much older adults.  We know that muscle mass is lost as we ender old age.  Something like this may hugely obviate the problem and possibly allow an individual to sustain his prime almost to the end of his life.


Stem Cell Transplants in Mice Produce Lifelong Enhancement of Muscle Mass

November 10, 2010


A University of Colorado at Boulder-led study shows that specific types of stem cells transplanted into the leg muscles of mice prevented the loss of muscle function and mass that normally occurs with aging, a finding with potential uses in treating humans with chronic, degenerative muscle diseases.

The experiments showed that when young host mice with limb muscle injuries were injected with muscle stem cells from young donor mice, the cells not only repaired the injury within days, they caused the treated muscle to double in mass and sustain itself through the lifetime of the transplanted mice. "This was a very exciting and unexpected result," said Professor Bradley Olwin of CU-Boulder's molecular, cellular and developmental biology department, the study's corresponding author.

Muscle stem cells are found within populations of "satellite" cells located between muscle fibers and surrounding connective tissue and are responsible for the repair and maintenance of skeletal muscles, said Olwin. The researchers transplanted between 10 and 50 stem cells along with attached myofibers -- which are individual skeletal muscle cells -- from the donor mice into the host mice.

"We found that the transplanted stem cells are permanently altered and reduce the aging of the transplanted muscle, maintaining strength and mass," said Olwin.

A paper on the subject was published in the Nov. 10 issue of Science Translational Medicine. Co-authors on the study included former CU-Boulder postdoctoral fellow John K. Hall, now at the University of Washington Medical School in Seattle, as well as Glen Banks and Jeffrey Chamberlain of the University of Washington Medical School.

Olwin said the new findings, while intriguing, are only the first in discovering how such research might someday be applicable to human health. "With further research we may one day be able to greatly resist the loss of muscle mass, size and strength in humans that accompanies aging, as well as chronic degenerative diseases like muscular dystrophy."

Stem cells are distinguished by their ability to renew themselves through cell division and differentiate into specialized cell types. In healthy skeletal muscle tissue, the population of satellite stem cells is constantly maintained, said Olwin.

"In this study, the hallmarks we see with the aging of muscles just weren't occurring," said Olwin. "The transplanted material seemed to kick the stem cells to a high gear for self-renewal, essentially taking over the production of muscle cells. But the team found that when transplanted stem cells and associated myofibers were injected to healthy mouse limb muscles, there was no discernable evidence for muscle mass growth.

"The environment that the stem cells are injected into is very important, because when it tells the cells there is an injury, they respond in a unique way," he said. "We don't yet know why the cells we transplanted are not responding to the environment around them in the way that the cells that are already there respond. It's fascinating, and something we need to understand."

At the onset of the experiments the research team thought the increase in muscle mass of the transplanted mice with injured legs would dissipate within a few months. Instead, the cells underwent a 50 percent increase in mass and a 170 percent increase in size and remained elevated through the lifetime of the mice -- roughly two years, said Olwin.

In the experiments, stem cells and myofibers were removed from three-month-old mice, briefly cultured and then transplanted into three-month-old mice that had temporarily induced leg muscle injuries produced by barium chloride injections. "When the muscles were examined two years later, we found the procedure permanently changed the transplanted cells, making them resistant to the aging process in the muscle," he said.

"This suggests a tremendous expa­­­nsion of those stem cells after transplantation," Olwin said. Fortunately, the research team saw no increase in tumors in the transplanted mice despite the rapid, increased growth and production of muscle stem cells.

As part of the research effort, the team used green fluorescent protein -- which glows under ultraviolet light -- to flag donor cells in the injected mice. The experiment indicated many of the transplanted cells were repeatedly fused to myofibers, and that there was a large increase in the number of satellite cells in the host mice.

"We expected the cells to go in, repopulate and repair damaged muscle and to dissipate," Olwin said. "It was quite surprising when they did not.

"It is our hope that we can someday identify small molecules or combinations of small molecules that could be applied to endogenous muscle stem cells of humans to mimic the behavior of transplanted cells," Olwin said. "This would remove the need for cell transplants altogether, reducing the risk and complexity of treatments."

But Olwin said it is important to remember that the team did not transplant young cells into old muscles, but rather transplanted young cells into young muscles.

The research has implications for a number of human diseases, Olwin said. In muscular dystrophy, for example, there is a loss of a protein called dystrophin that causes the muscle to literally tear itself apart and cannot be repaired without cell-based intervention. Although injected cells will repair the muscle fibers, maintaining the muscle fibers requires additional cell injections, he said.

"Progressive muscle loss occurs in a number of neuromuscular diseases and in muscular dystrophies," he said. "Augmenting a patient's muscle regenerative process could have a significant impact on aging and diseases, improving the quality of life and possibly improving mobility."

Olwin said the research team is beginning experiments to see if transplanting muscle stem cells from humans or large animals into mice will have the same effects as those observed in the recent mouse experiments. "If those experiments produce positive results, it would suggest that transplanting human muscle stem cells is feasible," he said.

The research was funded in part by the National Institutes of Health and the Muscular Dystrophy Association.

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Ancient Egyptian Spells Passport to Afterlife



When one reads of the teachings inferred through the book of the Dead, one needs to recall that fifty miles away a new religious teaching arose that outright rejected this whole.  Jesus taught in his time the idea of divine forgiveness and the idea of a priestly taught passport was scotched.

This at least gives us a taste of just how radical these religious ideas were at one time.  It was a world in which priesthoods marketed their own divine dispensation however odd and became central to local economies.

With the book of the dead we see this codified intro a dogma and a set of spells to assist the client in the afterlife.  This was all suppressed under Roman Christian control.  All the supporting literature was suppressed and mostly destroyed.

Ancient Egyptians' spells were 'passport' into paradise

By Laura Allsop for CNN

November 4, 2010 -- Updated 1109 GMT (1909 HKT)



London, England (CNN) -- If you've ever wished that there was a guidebook to get you into heaven, no matter what your exploits in this life, you're not alone.

In fact, so strong was the desire for eternal life for the ancient Egyptians that they took things a step further, in the shape of a collection of spells, known as the Book of the Dead, designed to fast-track them through the underworld into paradise.

For the ancients, the journey through the underworld after death was filled with obstacles and tests, including knife-wielding gods, monsters and perilous gateways -- and that's where the spells came in.

"It's a kind of repertoire, a pool of about 200 hymns to the gods, magical spells. You could choose from these a number of texts to put onto a roll of papyrus to take with you into your tomb and that would be your passport, your guide, to the next world." John Taylor, curator of a new London exhibition, "Journey Through the Afterlife: Egyptian Book of the Dead," told CNN.

Spells, mummies and amulets
Gallery: 'Passport' to paradise
The gods that had to be overcome are depicted on a number of fragile papyri on display in the British Museum, where the exhibition is being held. They include one with the head of a hippopotamus and the body of a lion, wielding a giant knife.

"If you couldn't speak the correct words to this god then it would leap at you with the knife and you would be killed and you would not have the afterlife," Taylor explained. "So, knowing these spells was absolutely crucial."

Ancient Egyptians also believed they would have to endure a ritual known as "the weighing of the heart" before a monster in the underworld known as the Devourer. If their hearts were pure, they could pass into the next life; if not, the heart would be eaten.

Mark Smith, a professor of Egyptology at Oxford University, explained that treatment of the body was also a crucial part of the funerary process.


Bodies were cleansed, internal organs removed and preserved in what are known as "canopic" jars, apart from the heart, which was put back in the body. The body was then packed with a salt-like substance called Natron to stop it from decomposing, before being wrapped in bandages and placed in an ornate sarcophagus.

If this complex and gruesome process suggests that the Egyptians were death-obsessed, Taylor explained that quite the opposite was true. "What they really want is to live forever," he said.

The lengthy burial process aimed to restore the dead person to life again and give them a new body that they could dwell in, he said.

Also on display are funerary masks, sarcophagi, mummies and amulets unearthed from ancient tombs in what is now Egypt that show just how important it was for the ancient Egyptians to get the proper send-off.

But according to Taylor, only the top level of Egyptian society could afford it. So what happened if you couldn't buy a book of the dead?

"The poorer people would still have a chance to reach the afterlife," Taylor explained. "It's just that the book of the dead would smooth the passage, it would be a kind of fast-track into paradise."

Smith told CNN that hints in a handful of ancient Egyptian texts suggest that there was some provision for the poor in the afterlife. He described one which tells of a virtuous poor man being handed the spells and amulets of a rich but wicked man.

"So, I don't think it is the case that if you couldn't buy a copy of the book of dead, you were out of luck," he said.

Also very important to ancient Egyptians, according to Smith, was the idea of reintegrating into a society in the afterworld.

The book of the dead included spells that would help the deceased make friends on the other side, and gave practical advice about how to approach other spirits.

"There's an ancient Egyptian proverb that says: There is no man except for a man with his brother -- that means, no man is an island," Smith told CNN.

He continued: "I think that proverb gives you a good insight into the way that Egyptians thought. It explains a lot about their ideas concerning the afterlife."

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Skylifter




Certainly, this design concept does two things.  First, it grossly eases the structural issues that arise for a cigar shaped craft able to sustain speeds of over 70 knots which was my expectation.  The craft is naturally strong and also naturally stable at a speed of around 40 knots.  Transitioning to the higher speeds drag issues begin to dominate.

Second, the inherent symmetry makes it far more weather worthy and allows it to fly in much rougher conditions that would bend and twist a tube shaped structure dangerously.  One would still be insane to fly into a thunderstorm but it may be much easier to handle just about anything else.

At 70 knots it becomes possible to seriously challenge long haul trucking and rail transport.  Yet a slower craft that is rigged for heavy loads and a more stately speed of 45 knots can likely match the needs of long haul trucking also.

The key is been able to do point to point travel with a hundred ton load.  That is a heavy container or rail car.

Air eliminates operator down time at the expense of two operators but avoids secondary roads and the like.  A factory in San Francisco can be a straight line trip to a distribution center in downtown New York.  Of course the long distance here would need two operators or at least one eight hour rest.

The driving distance is around 2900 miles while straight line is around 2600 miles.  The actual time difference if we assume a land speed of 60 mph works out to be that same eight hours assuming perfect conditions.

Perfect conditions in the air are believable while it is not on the road.

Another aspect of this design not mentioned is that it may actually be suitable for the use of hydrogen if the gondola is set to breakaway in an emergency.  A glider parachute configuration seems plausible with this design and not likely to create too much overhead.  That way nothing is internal to the gas bag structure.



Skylifter


NOVEMBER 10, 2010

Sander Olson interviews Jeremy Fitton, the founder and Director of Skylifter, an Australian company that is developing a novel transportation system that uses solar powered engines to fly massive balloons. Skylifter should be able to lift 150 ton payloads and transport such payloads over thousands of miles. Although originally developed for the mining industry, skylifter could be also used for tourism, freight transportation, mobile hospitals, or disaster response. Skylifter has already had successful prototype tests and plans on having a full-sized prototype ready within 4 years. 




Question: What are the origins of the SkyLifter concept?


Answer: I discovered the mining industry had issues with transporting large, oversize and heavy mining equipment directly to and from the mining sites. Helicopters were about the only option, but they were expensive, short range, and limited to at most 20 tonne payloads. I began exploring the concept of using large balloons to transport heavy payloads. It soon became apparent that by using these large balloons we could transport objects weighing up to 150 tonne thousands of miles, and put them down in precise locations.


Question: So the basic idea is a huge dirigible gas balloon with engines and solar cells attached?

Answer: Yes. The concept is based on proven technologies. Maneuvering the SkyLifter is relatively simple and straightforward and quite easy to understand once it is explained.


Question: How long can the SkyLifter loiter?


Answer: The SkyLifter is inherently buoyant, so if the engines are switched off the craft will simply carry on floating. So the SkyLifter can loiter almost indefinitely, which is very useful if you arrive at a site where they are not ready for your payload. The SkyLifter actually never lands - it just gets moored.



Question: How many prototypes have you created?


Answer: We have already created a mini craft called "Betty" which we built to test the basic concept. Then we built a larger test model called "Vikki" which we use to test aerostat profile and ground handling systems. Next we plan to proceed to a larger "Nikki" prototype before building a full-sized prototype, heavy lifter.



Question: Will SkyLifter use helium in the aerostat?


Answer: Any lighter-than-air gas will work. So far, we have been using helium, but any of a number of gases besides hydrogen, helium, hot air could be used. We plan to offer customers the choice, depending upon their needs.



Question: Will the SkyLifter employ standard engines?


Answer: Diesel engines generators produce electricity to power the electric motors which run are cycloidal propellers. More electricity can be generated from solar panels located on top of the aerostat – there is 15,000 square metres of space up there. The aircraft is always floating and the propellers are only used for thrust to move the aircraft vertically up and down and horizontally side to side.



Question: What is the approximate range of the SkyLifter? Can it safely traverse oceans?


Answer: We measure range in time rather than distance. With a 150 ton payload, SkyLifter should be capable of 24 hour flights. But if payload were reduced, fuel supplies could increase, leading to much longer flights. Although the SkyLifter can safely traverse any ocean, we are planning on first putting the SkyLifter to use initially on land routes. There are no plans to compete with cruise ships or sea freight.



Question: So Wal Mart could use a SkyLifter to transport freight directly from China to a store in the U.S. , that would be an amazing idea?


Answer: Yes, it could. However, supply chains such as Wal Mart uses are already well-established and highly efficient so we don’t see this happening for a good many years – let’s get the first one done and go from there.



Question: What is the maximum that a SkyLifter could lift? Will future versions ever be able to carry 1,000 ton payloads?


Answer: Although there are no technical reasons precluding a mega-SkyLifter from being built, it is wiser to start within the realms of what has already been done and scale up from there. A 300 metre diameter aerostat would carry over 1000 tonnes. We’ll look at that after we get the SL150 operating


Question: What is the estimated cost per ton per kilometer with SkyLifter?


Answer: That’s a tough one to answer because there are so many variables but we believe SkyLifter will be comparable to a large interstate road truck in terms of its energy consumption. However, we don't see SkyLifter as replacing ship, train, or road based freight transportation. Rather, we see it serving roles where a traditional transportation infrastructure doesn't exist. In such areas the SkyLifter should be the only solution.



Question: Your company plans on using SkyLifter to carry flying hotels and portable buildings. Are fully self-contained flying buildings feasible?


Answer: Yes, there is a demand for mobile real estate and it is completely within the realms of construction to build multi-level portable structures. It’s just not done today because there is no helicopter to pick it up.. These accommodation modules we envision would weigh under 150 tons, and each module would have its own food, water, power, and waste systems built in. So there would be minimal environmental footprint, and these modules could fly over locations that are currently difficult to get to. An individual module could house perhaps 120 people in comfort for 10 days. The limit is the weight rather than the volume.



Question: And modified containers could also be used as emergency evacuation systems?


Answer: Yes, this technology would be ideally suited to emergency situations, since they could reach remote locations and require neither roads nor airstrips to land. In terms of evacuating ‘walking wounded’ people, if each weighs around 100kg, then 150 tonne payload equates to 1500 people. We haven’t looked at the logistics of doing that but I’m sure someone will think about it once SkyLifters are available. At this stage we see SkyLifter being used to deliver full-service mobile facilities to help with humanitarian relief efforts.



Question: It would seem that the military could use SkyLifters to transport supplies to remote areas of Afghanistan.


Answer: Yes, that’s another application for heavy lift logistics. Studies have been done in the past that show aerostats are surprisingly difficult to shoot down. Put some holes in the aerostat and it takes a long time for the gas to leak out. It certainly doesn’t go ‘pop’ like some people might imagine – it is not like a party balloon.


Question: What is the maximum speed and ceiling for the SkyLifter?


Answer: There is no cabin pressurization, so we wouldn't go much above 10,000 feet. We could take it to much higher but that would substantially reduce payload capability. Regarding speed, we don’t need the aircraft to travel fast. Payload and precision flying is our main selling point. But for your information we are planning a design target of 45 knots cruise speed (83km/h ground speed with no wind),



Question: How rapidly could the SkyLifter system be developed?


Answer: With sufficient funding, we should have a prototype flying in 3 to 4 years. From that point on, it would simply be a matter of taking orders and scaling up production. So we could see many of SkyLifters operating a decade from now.

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David Leblanc on Thorium Advantage




It is not common knowledge, but the reason we use uranium is because it is needed to produce bombs.  Had that not been the case, thorium would have dominated the energy market.  Thus we now have the situation in which the thorium cycle is slowly infiltrating the reactor business often to solve disposal problems.

I posted an extensive item on the subject in times past and the bottom line is that the thorium cycle can be used to consume the real nasties from uranium like plutonium.

This item continues the debate by showing that thorium also can be operated with a lot less fuel.  Of course, fuel cost and supply has not been a particular problem with uranium, but certainly promises to be one.

NOVEMBER 04, 2010




Joseph Friedlander asked David LeBlanc about the starting fissile requirement for Thorium nuclear reactors. 


David Le Blanc, Physics Dept, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada and Ottawa Valley Research Associates Ltd\


Take 1970s technology, add perhaps $3 billion of R&D over 15 to 20 years for a trillion dollar per year potential energy market.



Molten Salt Reactors are one of six next generation designs chosen by the Gen IV program. Traditionally these reactors are thought of as thermal breeder reactors running on the thorium to 233U cycle and the historical competitor to fast breeder reactors. However, simplified versions running as converter reactors without any fuel processing and consuming low enriched uranium are perhaps a more attractive option. Uranium consumption levels are less than 1/6th that of LWR or a 1/4th of CANDU while at the same time offering clear advantages in safety, capital cost and long lived waste production along with increased proliferation resistance. A review of previous work and potential improvements proposed by the author will be presented.


David answers are below.


Molten salt reactors can come in several forms with the two main factors being 





(1) whether it is a Single Fluid (one salt for everything) or Two Fluid (one fuel salt for U233, one blanket salt for Thorium). There is also an intermediate called the 1 and 1/2 fluid that has a mixed fuel salt surrounded by a blanket salt. The second factor
1 ``2345789==

(2) is how thermal versus fast the neutron spectrum is. This is what really determines how much starting fissile one needs. 


The French Molten Salt Fast Reactor design with a faster neutron spectrum needs a great deal of starting fissile material (typically 5 to 10 tonnes per GWe) whereas a well moderated (lots of graphite) design is typically 1.5 tonnes and as little as 0.5 tonnes. As well of course, molten salt (liquid fluoride) reactors don't need to be breeders, they can act as very simple and very attractive converter reactors that only need a small fraction the uranium of LWRs. 




Question - apparently there is a need to have Uranium 233 for purposes of the first loading of thorium power reactors? Or will any fissionable do?


Answer - Molten salt reactors require anywhere from 500 kg to upwards of 5 or more tonnes per GWe plant (whether one runs a more thermal neutron spectrum or a more fast one). 1500 kg is considered typical. Any molten salt reactor can start on bomb grade or reactor grade Plutonium (roughly the same amount needed as U233). Plutonium is expensive to isolate and of finite supply in spent fuel (600 to 1000 tonnes worldwide?) Any MSR can also start on highly enriched uranium U235 (i.e. old weapons supply). HEU (Highly enriched uranium) is also limited and would be very politically unattractive to be shipping around. Potentially the simplest startup fuel would be Low Enriched Uranium (LEU is under 20% U235 and useless for weapons) because we can produce this in great amounts (we already do) but this is where I have to qualify my answer.


There are two main classes of molten salt reactors that produce all their own fissile fuel after startup, the better known Single Fluid design has everything in one fluid has a very hard time starting on LEU but Oak Ridge National Labs proposed such a design in the late 1970s (DMSR Breeder). Another way to run is called Two Fluid which has separate salts for the fissile U233 and fertile Thorium (which greatly simplifies the removal of fission products). In this design, favored by many these days, startup on LEU is fairly straightforward. You simply run LEU in the central fuel salt for a few years while building up and saving U233 produced in the thorium blanket salt. Once you have enough U233 saved up, you remove (and sell) any remaining LEU in the fuel salt and replace it with your saved up U233 and from then on run on the pure Thorium to U233 cycle.


So the short answer is that startup fissile requirement is not a roadblock to building thousands of GWe of molten salt reactors like it is for something like metal cooled fast breeders that need ten to twenty times as much starting fissile material.


Question 2 - if we decided to go thorium LFR tomorrow to replace all coal/NG baseline generation we couldn't because we need to have X amount of 233 for the first fuel loadings? I would name this the "U233 first loading bootup problem" ; if it truly does exist I believe I might have thought of a way around it. But is it really a problem?


Answer I believe this was refering to smaller 100 MWe reactors and Robert is one of the many that prefers Two Fluid designs that can start on quite small amounts of fissile material. 100 kg of U235 for 100 MWe is possible but I'd probably up that number a bit to be conservative since U235 isn't as good a starting fuel as U233. The price of $50,000 per kg is correct (even a bit on the high side).


Question 3
Also, that implies we DON'T need the U233 for first bootup? Theoretically *we
could use the 1000 tons of HEU military stockpiles of U- 235 to boot 10000
thorium reactors tomorrow? **Are these numbers correct?


Answer - Yes, as I discussed in Question (1) and again this is smaller 100 MWe reactors.


(Question 4)*

(Obviously, if the designs and all parts and tools pre-existed-- speaking
only of nuclear materials)*

I am also trying to construct a realistic list of fuel loadings needed for various kinds of reactors contrasted for a hypothetical all nuclear world of 15000 1 gwe reactors (or 150000 100 mw reactors) (ie all thorium powered, chemical fuel needs synthesized from CO2 as in the AIM HIGH or Keith Henson plan)


In the Aim high example this seems to be about 15000 tons of Th a year plus 1500 tons of initial U-235 to start it off (after that, consumed *235 replaced by generated 233 is my understanding?) Is this correct*?*


Answer I think assuming 100% of world energy a little high (lets leave at least some space for hydro, biomass, wind and solar!). But yes, 15,000 GWe would only consume 15,000 tonnes of thorium per year, but you are missing a zero in regards to how much U235, by Robert Hargraves' numbers it is 15,000 tonnes, not 1500. Starting on U235 is not quite as efficient as U233 though so to be conservative I'd probably double that value to 30,000 tonnes.


(Question 5)For fifteen thousand 1 GWe DMSR (Denatured Molten Salt Reactor) reactors what are the initial and yearly loadings?


Answer The DMSR converter is my other passion as of late. It is a much simplified design that needs a lot less R and D and likely an easier sell to utilities, governments and regulators. It doesn't need to process the salts at all (except an optional single treatment after each salt batch of 10 to 30 years). Oak Ridge National Labs promoted this design in the late 1970s but was subject to little optimization (i.e. done with almost no funding). The 1 GWe design requied 3.5 tonnes of U235 (in LEU) to start and averaged about 150 kg of U235 per year of fissile top ups after that (at 75% capacity factor). Both these values could easily be improved, especially the annual requirement which could be halved. For LWR and CANDUs the starting load is more for LWRs (5 tonnes U235) and a less for CANDU (about 1 tonne U235). The annual needs for LWR and CANDUs are similar at roughly 1000 kg U235 per GWe- year (i.e. about 200 tonnes natural uranium).





A newly proposed embodiment of a Pebble Bed DMSR Converter based on a modification of design work from ORNL 4344.


Question 6 Regular lwr/bwr/candu typical loading is like 200 tons right? (first two use 3.5% LEU, last natural--) So we are discussing perhaps *3 million tons of Uranium* for them--- not sure that is doable
.
* (I assume PU239 would work too as initial fissionable loading with some
reactor modification--*

* Yes, no reactor modifications needed really.


Question 7 How much Pu 239 needed per 1 ton fuel loading thorium reactor?) How much seed U233 (235 was listed as 100 kg)

* (I am trying to get the ratios of 235-233-239 required for initial
fissionable loading in a 1 ton Thorium reactor in kg...*


Answer
There isn't a specific answer to this but a rule of thumb might be just slightly more Pu239 than U233 and 1.5 to 2 times as much U235 than U233.



Question 8 Is that U235 HEU price correct (I thought the Russians were selling it in the 90s for $5000 a kilo --PU239 for 25000 a kilo?*) Apparently it is 10 times that now?


Answer The Russians were likely selling it cheap to raise cash. I would say 30,000$ per kg of U235 is typical. For Pu for MOX use, it typically costs about 100,000 per kg to remove it from spent fuel and this is only 60% fissile (239+241). A sodium cooled fast breeder needs about 18 tonnes of reactor grade Pu to start($1.8 billion per GWe!). If we are removing it for molten salt reactors we can likely use methods that are less than half this price per kg and of course we need a lot less kg.

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